I love UX interviews because they are so cringe.
Sometimes I like the cringe, but I love the feeling you get after two to three UX interviews where it becomes crystal clear that something is confusing and you can make it better just by changing the color of a button or moving something.
A lot of founders hate that feeling because it’s almost painful to watch someone fail miserably at navigating your product. But I think it’s one of the most valuable things you can do.
The woman who was fighting demons (but didn’t know it)
We were testing a time tracking product’s signup flow. We got this woman on a call, gave her a simple task—something like “add an employee” or “build a schedule.”
She shared her screen and started clicking everywhere. All the wrong places. She even went back to the marketing site looking for help.
It took her forever to figure it out. And then she’s done and she’s like, “Oh my god, that was so easy.”
Ma’am, you were literally fighting demons.
She clicked 20, maybe 40 things to complete a task that should have been two clicks. It should have been obvious, but it wasn’t.
And I just remember thinking, there are people who blame themselves. They think it’s them, not the product.
That’s not you, sweet baby summer child. That was us. We could do way better.
The outcome bias trap
Here’s what ends up happening. You talk to enough customers who say “I love it, everything is great, it’s so easy” and you start believing no improvements are needed.
But your mileage varies a lot depending on who you’re talking to.
Not every customer is created equal when it comes to product feedback.
To me, there are four levels of this. I call them the four levels of product consciousness. And understanding these levels is critical because if you don’t, you might be getting a false sense of security from customers who are telling you everything is great when actually, they’re struggling and just don’t realize the product is the problem.
Level 1: Unaware
Unaware people don’t recognize issues or poor design. They blame themselves when they can’t figure something out.
Like the woman in my story who clicked 20-40 things, went back to the marketing site for help, struggled through it, and then said “that was so easy.”
They don’t register the friction. They think it’s not the product, it’s them.
They’re great for other types of research, but if you’re hoping to get meaningful product or design feedback, you need to actually watch them. If you never get them on a UX interview, they’ll just tell you everything is easy.
So if someone’s telling you how easy something is in a jobs interview or discovery call, take that with a giant grain of salt. Until you watch them do it, you don’t know if they’re actually thinking “it’s me, I just didn’t learn it yet.”
When actually, it’s just a tough design to navigate and you can make it better.
If you run a UX interview with unaware folks, you can see them struggling hard. But ignore what they say at the end. We watched you click 20 different things and none of it worked. That wasn’t easy. That was us not doing our best job.
Level 2: Friction aware
These people experience the friction and know something is wrong, but they can’t explain why.
In a regular interview, they’ll say things like “I wish reports were better. It takes a long time. I don’t know how to fix it, I just know it’s inefficient.”
They’re aware friction exists, but they don’t have the words to describe exactly what’s happening or why.
In a UX interview, there’s lots of hesitations and pauses. They’re not thinking “this button is in the wrong place.” They’re thinking “I’m lost, but I don’t know why.”
These folks are really valuable for pinpointing where the friction is, even if they can’t describe in product or design terms what’s wrong.
Level 3: Friction vocal
Out of 10 people you talk to, maybe one or two are like this.
Friction vocal people are hyper aware of the friction and can actually describe it. They’ll screen share immediately and point things out.
We’ve done interviews where they already have the product pulled up. “Let me just show you why this is bad. You see this button and this toggle and how this dropdown doesn’t make sense? That’s confusing. Here’s why.”
They’re awesome because they can diagnose the situation quickly and walk you through it.
You can use them for jobs research, qualitative stuff, and UX. Flag these people for future releases and design mockups. Give them high fidelity things to look at—they need more finished products to give clear feedback.
What I like about them is they don’t blame themselves. They blame the product.
That can be hard to listen to for product managers and founders because it feels personal. But it’s not. It’s all about efficiency and what’s intuitive.
If you’re not marketing to marketers, developers, or designers (which is most SaaS companies), you want to find these people quickly and keep them close. They’re your champions panel for when you need really strong specific feedback.
Level 4: Most aware
These people are almost like amateur product and design thinkers. They might actually have that background.
They can speak to you about product and design on a level others can’t.
You can put a low fidelity wireframe in front of them and they can imagine it getting better. They can imagine adjustments. You can include them in any part of product discovery, ideation, or development, and they’ll get it.
The biggest risk is they’ll have very strong biased feelings about how to make the product work only for them.
They have really high product quotient, naturally. But you have to be careful because they’re usually extremely biased about how things should work. You don’t want to accidentally build something that only works for them.
The irony of “most aware” folks
Here’s what’s ironic.
You’re probably thinking of specific people in each category right now. And with those most aware folks, sometimes you get really comfortable with them and kind of turn your brain off because they just seem so right in that moment.
They’re proposing changes, maybe even telling you exactly how it should work. And sometimes our brains turn off and we’re like, yeah, it should be that way.
But we’re not thinking about the hundreds or thousands of other users who also need to use that same thing.
So it’s important to balance out the most aware people with others.
Similarly, don’t just surround yourself with unaware people. Unless you plan on doing lots of UX interviews, they’re tough to extract insight from because you have to watch them do it.
Balance them out with more friction vocal, friction aware, and most aware people.
Those most aware folks are almost like your other product managers. That’s how close they feel to the product. Finding most aware folks can be tough.
Product consciousness vs design consciousness
This applies to both product and design.
Someone can be very high awareness about product—they can talk about features, why they’re valuable, scenarios where they work or don’t.
But design is its own axis. Someone can be totally unaware design wise but have high propensity for talking about features.
The opposite can be true. Maybe someone isn’t good at talking about features or roadmap ideas, but they’re really good at telling you why certain screens and comps are efficient or not.
Sometimes you get lucky and get someone who’s both. Great product thinker and great design thinker.
And some are totally unaware on both. Those folks need to be observed. Watch them in the wild and ask questions to help trigger them being more vocal about what’s happening.
How to use this framework
If you’ve never done UX interviews, it’s time to start. You won’t know what levels people fall into until you actually interview them.
The goal is to do two things:
First, build your base. Figure out where everyone falls so you know who to tap when.
Second, prioritize the feedback you get based on what your needs are at the time.
If you’re largely hearing from unaware folks—you just did a sprint and talked to 10 totally unaware people—then you might need to optimize for a more diverse batch next time.
The biggest pitfall is not doing enough UX research. This is especially true for earlier stage or bootstrap businesses.
Step one is doing more interviews. Step two is making sure you’re dialed in to the quality of the feedback.
Because I do think it biases teams severely. Everyone’s telling you how great and easy it is, giving you a false sense of security. You think everyone’s happy.
But that’s outcome bias. Your revenue is flat, so clearly something is amiss.
The purpose is to help founders dial into who they’re actually talking to, where they fall on the scale, and how much to take what they say with a grain of salt.
Find those people and keep them close.
About incentives
We always incentivize research sprints for two reasons.
First, it ensures your research sprint happens on time. We don’t have time for it to drag on for weeks.
Second, it gives you a mix of people, almost always guaranteed.
Most aware and friction vocal folks are usually invested because they want you to make the product better for them. Nine times out of 10, they’re not thinking about everyone else.
You might not have to keep incentivizing them, particularly if you’re making changes based on their feedback. There’s now a feedback loop. That person learns that if they interview with you, you’ll make changes.
It becomes a relationship where you might not have to incentivize every time. Maybe give them a kickback or a holiday gift.
But if you’re trying to do UX research quickly and need feedback fast, always incentivize if you can. If there’s no budget, keep in mind that will likely only attract friction vocal and most aware folks.
If you’re hoping to observe more unaware or friction aware folks, an incentive is better. There’s no feedback loop for them if they’re not aware of something. They can’t imagine it getting better. There’s nothing in it for them that they can reasonably see.
If you don’t incentivize, you’ll probably get mostly friction vocal and most aware folks because there’s an investment they’re making. They feel if they’re vocal and tell you a lot, you’ll do it.
But I do think they should get some type of thank you, because they essentially become design partners.
So what do you think? Where do most of your customers fall on this spectrum? And more importantly, are you turning your brain off because everyone keeps telling you everything is easy?
This is something we help with at DemandMaven. If you’re struggling to get meaningful product feedback or you’re not sure if you’re talking to the right customers, let’s talk.